I'm a big fan of LinkedIn and think that there's incredible value in the site. And I'm happy that they now have the concept of Saved Profiles and that they provide the ability to organize your saved profiles. When you add this to some of the other CRM type capabilities they are adding, it begins to make LinkedIn even more powerful.
But I'm a bit surprised that they decided to use a folder metaphor as opposed to tags. Yes, there are a large number of people who really don't quite get tags, but you can always show them a folder view on top of tags. This is how Google does things. Allow tagging and treat tags a bit like folders in the interface. Here's the Google Reader "folders" but really they are tags as you can assign them to many different folders.
Well I should be a little more exact. What's the difference between tags and folders? Both are really attributes of an object. The object is associated with a folder or with tags.
With something as messy as people, I'm really surprised that LinkedIn would have gone with a Folder system – and only provided a limited number of folders. Yikes. There must have been some heated discussions around the design of this feature.
Just like building anything as installed software is questioned today, designing anything based on folders should be questioned.
Of course, I immediately gave him the whole spiel on Visible Networking and Steve was totally game to make our networking visible.
Remind me about your background Steve?
I have about 11 years in the technology sector including roles doing market research, sales and product development. My focus has been marketing strategy and product development. You can see more on my LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevegilison. I also blog at http://gilison.wordpress.com/ and you can find me on twitter: @gilbola.
What are you working on now?
I’m currently working with several startups, helping them launch new web businesses. Basically everything from initial feasibility analysis and business plans through defining the product (PRDs) and project managing the development of the project. My clients are typically entrepreneurs who have other jobs and are looking for help to get their side projects going but don’t have the time or skill set to launch it themselves. One interesting project, a bit different, is helping a paper-based collections agency implement a CRM/workflow software package and also select and integrate an eDocument Management Solution including scanning the paper-based backfile and putting in a go-forward process for capturing digital documents.
What keeps you up at night?
It’s very difficult to communicate the value of my services and it’s even harder to find people/companies looking to outsource their product development to a business guy like myself. Getting new projects is tough.
I can see that. Most people think they can do product design. But there's often a gap between what a technical group like ours is looking for and what an entrepreneur is able to define. I'm curious how you've tried to define that? Maybe we can get someone like Cliff Allen to weigh in on what would be a good way to position and market yourself?
We just reconnected and so far, what is it we would have talked about if we got together in person?
I’ve always respected your work and perspective on internet businesses and social media so I wanted to pick your brain about opportunities in this space for consulting and full-time employment; how do I position myself? Where are some interesting areas or companies in LA that you think are doing good things? If I were to pick a niche what would it be? And do you know anyone that I should speak with who might be able to help me find more work?
Wow, great questions. You face a bit of the challenge that I face. How do I find entrepreneurs who have a great idea that can get or has got funding who need a CTO and/or development team? In your case, they need to be someone with a great idea who needs help fleshing it out into a product vision. Or they need to be going into a scaling up mode.
I think that most first time entrepreneurs won't necessarily get the gap between their idea and what you could do. More likely it would be people with more experience. They want to do their second or third but need someone to do the real work/lifting. Of course, it's probably harder to find these folks. Or maybe not. Likely any successful web entrepreneur has more ideas than time.
I personally think that your background with entertainment would mean that you could do something interesting around product management for hybrid online and entertainment plays. I'm not sure how to find these and have wondered that myself.
I'm hoping that other people can chime in on this:
What networking events in Los Angeles or Southern California do you go to? What was the best one you’ve been to recently?
Tony, it's great you'd ask since I've got a blog with a post about different networking events in the LA area. These are one-offs that I mention in the blog rather than make the master list too cluttered. I have shied away from taking favorites in my blog or anywhere public. But I typically go to the Docstoc, Dealmaker LA, and Digital LA events.
That surprises me because I either haven't been going to those or have been missing you there. Your list is great BTW. We should keep comparing notes on your list and my Networking Events in Los Angeles and Southern California.
So what do you think about the concept of Visible Networking?
How about you send some questions ahead of time like you proposed but then have the Q/A on IM so they can potentially paste in prepared statements/links, etc. and you can still get the real-time interaction going. It’s the follow-up questions to the responses that really create the dialogue and valuable nuggets beyond the information. Anyway, that’s my initial reaction.
I like the idea. I didn't execute this time. Maybe twitter as the channel for the follow-up? And I can capture that and post it?
Besides Tony Karrer for technology, who are some of your go to people in Los Angeles?
I think that Tom Elliott at CKMG and Erlend Wilhemsen at Fabric Interactive do good stuff.
Of course, when I started thinking about Visible Networking, I immediately went to Cliff to check in to see how he's doing and to get his feedback, thoughts and ideas on the concept.
Cliff, remind me about your background?
My first career was spent building radio and television stations, then running the programming side of those businesses. I moved into writing software to analyze audience data, and wrote a lot of computer graphics software. In 1986 I started an advertising and public relations firm to serve software and hardware companies, which became a marketing consulting business (www.Allen.com) when I moved to L.A. in 1998.
Along the way, I co-authored three books on one-to-one marketing (http://www.amazon.com/Cliff-Allen/e/B001H6OERG/) to help marketers learn how to built and nature relationships with their customers.
It's great to know that you have the radio and TV background. One of the places where eHarmony really took off was on radio. Lots of online marketing before that, but we had some great results when we were picked up by a national radio program. Hey, radio. Maybe that would make sense as a marketing channel.
What are you working on now?
A few years ago, my CTO spotted a need that local groups and organizations have in handling RSVPs and registrations for meetings and events. After a considerable amount of market research, we created the SureToMeet system that’s now used by organizations around the country.
I also write about holding events (http://blog.SureToMeet.com), and I’m writing a series about integrating marketing strategy with marketing tactics (http://blog.Allen.com).
I've been following both of your blogs for a while. Great stuff. Of course, part of the reason that I went to you when I started thinking about visible networking is that you run a company that's right in the middle of this. So, naturally I have to ask:
What are your thoughts on my concerns around networking and particularly visible networking?
Different types of people need different types of networking. For those of us who are online throughout the day, “visible networking” online is a lot more productive than driving across L.A. for face-to-face general networking events. I like the thread of comments that occur on popular blogs, especially those blogs that notify you when additional comments have been posted.
Blogs also make it easy for new people to find those interesting conversation. LinkedIn discussion areas are good, but it’s frustrating when people send me links to discussions in LinkedIn Groups where I’m not a member (and can’t join without leaving another group). In this era of “open source” everything, open conversations on blogs make a lot of sense.
That's great to hear. I'm going to be curious to see how this unfolds. Certainly having a chance to engage a bit with you, Cliff, is great. Normally we drive across town to spend two minutes together at an event. Never get all that deep.
Any specific thoughts on things I should do to make Visible Networking better? What have you seen elsewhere that works?
What keeps you up at night?
Growing our business! We’re pleased with its growth but, as with any Web-based business, we’re looking for additional organizations we can help.
It's good to hear that a person who I go to for marketing advice has the same challenge as the rest of us. What's working and not working for you? Are you leveraging social media at all? What do you think about using Browse My Stuff / a Topic Hub to reach influencers in the meeting organizer space?
On a separate note, Cliff, should I add your blog.allen.com to the B2B Marketing Zone?
And while I'm on the subject of your blog, you've got great stuff, but what are some of your best posts that I should go look at?
Since I have two blogs, here are a few from both:
Seems to echo some of my concerns about the value of events. It's interesting to see that from someone who runs a company that helps people hold events.
Great points about business networking and how storytelling is a better way to network. So, natural question for me. How do these tips change when you are talking about visible networking? Cliff, what recommendations do you have for me?
Good post talking to mind shift related to marketing today. The one on mind maps makes me wonder: (1) Cliff, where's your mind map for SureToMeet? (2) How do these mind maps change in a 2.0 world?
What networking events in Los Angeles or Southern California do you go to? What was the best one you’ve been to recently?
For most of this year I’ve shifted my networking to events where there is a speaker, who sets the theme, and meetings where there is a purpose and agenda.
For events where there is a speaker who is matched to the audience I like MOTM (www.motms.com). For meetings aimed at helping salespeople network, I like B2B Power Exchange (www.b2bpowerexchange.com).
If the MOTM is worth the drive out to the valley, that's saying something.
Besides Tony Karrer for software/web development in Los Angeles ;) who are some of your go to people in Los Angeles?
Here are a few people who keep me plugged into what’s happening:
I know Kurt and Heather. I'll have to get to know Hannah, Alan and Susan. Thanks for the pointers.
Where can I find you for more visible networking?
Here’s where I hang out:
Cliff, I'm looking forward to diving in a bit deeper on this stuff with you over the next few days/weeks.
And, since this is one of my first attempts at visible networking, I hope that people will chime in with thoughts around what aspects of this works and doesn't work for you.
I'm hoping you can help me figure out who I should be connecting with on this.
I find myself speaking at various venues in Los Angeles to tell people (most often service providers) about how I've used social media and particularly my blogs, LinkedIn, twitter and topic hubs as part of my own services business. These presentations always inspire people to do more with LinkedIn, create or improve their blog, and maybe do more with Twitter.
Invariably I'm asked by an accountant, lawyer, wealth manager, placement specialist, insurance agent, etc.:
How can I get more help setting up my blog? Doing these things you are talking about?
And while I always tell people to just dive in and do it (and mention that if they get stuck, just ask a 25 year old to help you), there are definitely a lot of people in the audience that need more hand holding. They need some help getting started. They need someone who does consulting, hand holding, cracks the whip a bit, gets the stuff in place, knows different tricks and techniques.
Of course, this normally is a bit more complicated than just the technical aspects.
What's their specific niche? Who's the audience? Where are they online? What do they search for?
So this person needs to understand how to quickly move through marketing analysis 101 type things.
My perception is that most services professionals like this are not going to want to spend a lot of money on these things, but I've not market tested it.
I'd like to be able to point them to a few different options. I'd especially like to find people in Los Angeles.
Who do you know that might fit?
This past week has had an interesting confluence of events that's led me to conclude that I want to start doing a lot of visible networking among the tech / web crowd here in Los Angeles. I want to take you through a bit of what brought me here, because I think it will help explain what I mean by visible networking.
Last week I posted about Networking Events in Los Angeles and Southern California and received back some interesting comments, some of the best from a LinkedIn Group. Several of the comments there echoed what I've been feeling:
Person 1: I have attended a plethora of networking groups and have also found it harder and harder to continue to be motivated to go.
Person 2: Very discouraging (few if any happy with their networking efforts) but not unexpected. I've not found any great groups either.
There were some suggestions in the LinkedIn group, but nothing that made me think … wow, that would be great.
To top this off, at the LA CTO Forum we had Mark Suster as the presenter. I really enjoy his blog and I can't wait to mix it up with him some more on the value of Hollywood money / connections. But to the point here, when we were talking about networking events, Mark and the group generally were hard pressed to say what events were worth attending. Mark mentioned Twiistup and VentureNet, but generally the room felt that it was hit and miss with all events.
And when you think about the return on your time, it becomes even more discouraging. Most of the time when I go to an in-person networking events in Los Angeles, it takes me at least 3 hours. More often 4. Especially with traffic. And that doesn't count the time for Prenetworking – see Secret for Networking at Events – Prenetworking and Pre-network with LinkedIn.
I'm not saying that I'm giving up completely on in-person events, but I think visible networking will provide a more effective use of time.
I present a fair amount on the topic of how to use social media. The same Friday as the LA CTO Forum with Mark Suster, I presented to a group of about 40-50 mostly service providers on use of social media to build your reputation and grow your business. I showed them how I can do a LinkedIn search and connect with all sorts of people in a few minutes. I discussed how I often will set up 30 minute conversations about particular topics with people I know or folks that I meet through LinkedIn. These conversations are generally really great and I meet all kinds of interesting people. I actually find that they are much better than conversations at most networking events.
While I was presenting, I said:
It's a much better use of my time to use LinkedIn to spark a conversation than it is to go to networking events.
At the same presentation, I told that audience that
Blogging is an online conversation.
I'm engaging in conversation with other bloggers all the time. And with my perceived prototypical audience member. I've talked a bit about this before in posts like: Conversation Topics.
The above events caused me to think:
Why don't I combine my online networking activity along with my blogging activity to network in the open – to do visible networking?
What do I mean by visible networking, well it's simply the idea that instead of having a 30 minute phone conversation, why not have that conversation out in public view. Twitter is pretty much that already. But I'm thinking about deeper conversations than I have on twitter. So, clearly it would make sense to do this in my blogs. And I'm thinking about having these conversations both with people I already know and people that I've just met or are just getting to know.
The advantages are simple:
I'm not 100% sure what this will exactly mean in practice. I know that I'll be getting to know more of the influencers in Los Angeles and having blog conversations with them. Sometimes, I'll send them a note through LinkedIn or even an email (gasp) and strike up a conversation. And I'll post about it. And maybe they will post about it. And I'll do my best to make as much of the conversation visible.
Now I'm sure quite a few people will be saying something along the lines of "Tony, no duh." That's what this stuff has been all along. But sometimes it takes me a while to catch on.
With that, I look forward to visible networking with you.
And certainly if you have ideas on how to best make this happen, please let me know.
